Fiery moment Ally Langdon and Bill Shorten clash (2024)

Former Labor leader Bill Shorten clashed with Allison Langdon in a heated interview following accusations he isn't doing enough to crack down on welfare fraudsters.

Mr Shorten, the minister responsible for the National Disability Insurance Scheme, told A Current Affair's Langdonon Monday night that he is doing everything he can to hold crooks accountable.

His interview was preceded by an emotional story about an NDIS provider, Denise Clissold, who is accused of taking funds from the multi-billion dollar disability assistance scheme for herself.

Introducing the story to Mr Shorten, Langdon said:'Concerns were raised about this woman with the NDIS Commission months ago. She hasn't been banned. Now, clearly she should lose her job - and some might say the same about you.'

Mr Shorten replied: 'I don't know where you get to that conclusion, the second part, Ally, but I guess it's your job to say that,

'It's my job to make sure that these crooks and scallywags are not part of the NDIS. The reality is, that interview you showed makes my blood boil.

'These people are being investigated. I'd love to tell you that I can click my fingers and ban all the bad people tonight. That would be the best outcome. But we've got to go through due process.'

Langdon was unsatisfied with Mr Shorten's answer and argued an investigation 'could take months'.

'Aren't we protecting the wrong person here?,' she said.

'She's not banned. She's not even suspended, Minister.'

Mr Shorten answered: 'Yes, you said that before, and I got that.

'I'm saying to you that I've gone to our investigators and said, 'It seems like a pretty open and shut case' and they've said, 'Minister, we've got to go through the processes'.

'But the fact of the matter is, what we saw with this person, I don't think is an isolated example. When I became the minister two years ago, I was shocked by the fact that there was very little attention paid to fraud detection, catching crooks, getting rid of them.

'In the last two years, we've doubled the number of investigators. We've put in – there were no systems to catch people. There was no way to check if claims were being inflated, duplicated or indeed ghosted.

'The tools that we had upon me becoming minister were not adequate to police the scheme, so we're putting through changes in parliament as we talk to improve the detection and prevention of fraud.'

But Langdon further pressed:'So do you think the NDIS is in good shape right now?'

Mr Shorten defended the service system, saying 'it's changing lives and doing a great job'.

'I think that the truth is that a majority of service providers are probably doing the right thing, but there's a minority who seem to view it as their god-given right to fleece disabled people, investors, taxpayers, and they're not - they're in it for themselves,' he said.

Langdon fired back: 'But if you can't even put a stop to a provider like the one we just explained in this story, I would suggest then that the system is failing.'

Mr Shorten responded with claims he has drastically increased funding for investigations into NDIS fraud and took a shot at Langdon for her pointed questions.

'The other thing I have to say, Ally, and this might go against a little bit of your gotcha sort of style of journalism - this argument that these cases mean that the scheme is wrecked, the scheme is not wrecked,' he said.

'Unfortunately, this great Australian tradition amongst an element of the community who think they've got a god-given right to rip off taxpayer money and rip off disabled people, but that is not the whole story.

'I'm grateful for you exposing these matters. I actually mean that. Because it just draws attention to the crooks. But what we also need to do is-'

Langdon interrupted:'But then we can't even stop the crooks in their tracks. That's the fundamental problem with it.'

Mr Shorten, growing frustrated, told her: 'That's not right, Ally.

'Merely because an investigation hasn't convicted people tonight on your show doesn't mean that we throw away due process.

'One thing I won't do is let a crook off, Ally, just to get a quick sound bite here tonight.'

Langdon attempted to interrupt him again, but Mr Shorten quickly told her: 'No no, hang on. You had your go.

'You wanted me to get rid of the crooks. I get up every morning and do it. Every morning we chase this down.

'But what we've got to do is get the budget. We've got that now. Get the people. We're hiring them. We've got to get the proper technology to investigate the claims. And I've got to get the laws in place.

'I'm glad you're interested in this issue. But you know, you had a little dig at me before, that you've been chasing me for months to come on the show - you interviewed me 100 times on the Today show when you were there, you never raised the NDIS once.

'This, for me, is not just a nightly TV story. This, for me, is a 24-hour passion.'

Langdon shot back:'Hang on. You want to take it down this path?

'We're talking to each other now. And let's think about the people at home who want answers about the NDIS. What we're hearing from people writing in: it's not fast enough. We get emails about the NDIS every single day.

'People are coming to us as a last resort, because they don't feel the system listens to them.'

Mr Shorten responded:'But you know what? You actually make a fair point. And I did say earlier, I'm grateful for you exposing this stuff.'

Langdon then steered the interview towards reports Mr Shorten's speech writer has been paid $620,000 over two years, which she described as 'a bad look'.

Mr Shorten claimed he's 'not responsible for negotiating her (the speech writer's) contract' and described the revelation in Parliament on Monday as 'some sort of cheap Liberal tactic'.

'But the NDIS, which is what you got me on here for – I just want to say to your viewers: I hate the crooks. I helped set up the scheme. These people have no place in it,' Mr Shorten said.